BAW339

Happy birthday Roi

Ilan, last EC Meeting Minutes is 10th of May 2005 and i haven't noticed anything new there. In case there was new ECMM it still not uploaded. Cheers

Hello gentleman! Due to different points of view on virtual airline development and traning, difficulties in decision making process, extremely slow development (if at all) of adviced inventions and changes, i have decided to resign from position of ELAL VA training advisor. British Airways VA is notified on decision and thus all cooperation between BAW VA and ELAL VA on training matters ceased. Permission to use BAW VA training materials on ELAL VA site is revoked. Permission to use recently created training materials is revoked. Official part is over, now to normal language. ELAL VA is undergoing some changes, from my expirience with it the people inside the airline wish to do at its best. Sometimes these changes take a lot of time and effort. Not allways people have that time or courage to actually perform all the necessary changes. I resign not because ELAL VA did nothing to become better. They do changes. I resign because of reasons pointed in resignation letter. We have different view on VA development. Thus i don't think ELAL VA need BAW VA advisor if these points of view differs so much. To partially explain: I see VA as place for learning and fun, as community of virtual pilots who is together to learn something new and have fun. ELAL VA see it as place to simulate real life airline to the last point, no matter if it is fun and exciting or total boredom. While both points have its right to exsist, they are too different. I'd like to thank ELAL VA President and staff for efforts taken to improve. Wish all the best to ELAL VA and its pilots Captain Alexander Sinev British Airways VA

Hello gentleman! I would like to share the expirience and say thank you to excellent controllers who is on stations now for their professional control that allowed me to forget about all the fatigue and enjoy the flight as i even can't explain. I'm flying now to Rome and from there to Madeira... thanks to Israeli Controllers this flight is wonderful and happy I want to personally thank Ben-Gurion Approach/Departure Mr. Eran Regenstrif (sorry if typo errors present) and Tel-Aviv Center Mr. Opher Ben-Peretz for wonderful and truly professional control. Thank you gentleman i am so happy to be under your control and so happy now in this flight. It is all thanks to you.

Anyone who was online at 3-4 morning probably saw UPS doing extremely large event. I think they all was in air... something like 100 aircraft flying over 3 states of US of A with full contol enroute. That was very pleasant to see. I entered their site to look what is going on. Sponsored event. Nice idea... Any ideas of how to do something like that in Israel? Would be good to see 100 a/c's flying in Contollers woud kill me for such a huge workload on them

Thanks a lot!

מזל טוב!

Mr. President of ELAL VA! First of all Sir, you haven't answered even one question i asked. Unfortunately. I asked why it happens and why not to do it better. Lack of time... half year is more then enough and does not explain anything. Let me pass a few words about your unathorized provision of training on PPL Ground School and ALTP. It is not for fun was implemented by CAA and FAA to provide ground school with actual flights. Every rule of CAA and FAA was written in blood. It is highly advicable by every and all flight instructors to learn Ground School with actual flying expirience. Just to inform you Sir, you are breaching the law by providing actual Ground School training without authorization. I suggest you reconsider the target of your VA or aquire all proper authorizations. Besides you do more damage then good by providing real flight training in virtual environment. It was not built nor ment for it. You don't know and don't have Flight Instructor license to do such a thing. Moreover flight simulator environment is good place to get general idea of flight and enjoy it. For serious training you have to go Flight School. It is sometimes incredibly hard to get out from the approach of virtual pilot to approach of real pilot during lessons. Your provision of Ground School training can and will lead to real life airplane crashes in future if continued. Becouse people usually learn something new and when hear something close to what they know they don't pay attantion required to remember. Its simple psychology. Real aviation world is not a game. It is different and accents are differently placed there. So get the authorizations or change everything. What you doing now is serious crime. You can check my words with lawyers. As for ALTP. It is 1470 hours as Pilot in Command, not as pilot. It is a big difference. For Heathrow Control... i know better, i'm BAV pilot and fly frequently to and from there. Also you know very well that Controller can give a pilot clearence to land any runway. So lets not hide the facts. It was happening and will happen in future. One more question... who exactly deleted the post put on ELAL VA forum? It was there for discussion after VATIL locked up post on this forum and notified me where they think is best to put it for discussion. It was put to ELAL VA forum by ELAL VA staff. Your airline have 78 pilots. You proud of it? It is a shame Sir. Half year in existance and only 78 pilots. And how many of them are active pilots? How many events do your airline have? What kind of training and support your airline provides to new pilots? You saying that your target is to aquire best pilots for the airline. But you will never aquire best pilots with approach like this. You have a good pilots, really good. But not all of them are good and none of them can improve their level. Becouse no training provided. Real life training is almost 0 in simulator and endangers people if they ever go for real life pilot course. Why, ask CAA. Codeshares is the last thing ever that any pilot can be interested in. A brief coment about "Israeli pilot who flies for British Airways". Sir, i can say about myself Israeli pilot, Canadian pilot, British pilot, Soviet pilot. I lived in all these countries, but yes my home is Israel. If you where meaning that i fly for British Airways and not for ELAL VA... i admit that i would be proud to fly for ELAL but never will fly for ELAL VA in the state it is now. Beautiful website, but general feeling of ELAL VA i have is disgusting and disappointed. Especially after your kind reply to me Sir. Now i'm as far from ELAL VA as i never was. Sir, here is my questions: What is the target ELAL VA trying to reach by putting close to real life test requiring knowledge that is nearly useless in FS world and impossible to pass honestly without prior real world training or extensive research and not providing important information that many prospect pilots would look for? Why would ELAL VA with its great potential not become large and truly best airline? Who authorized you to provide real life Ground School training? Do you have the necessary knowlege and athorizations to provide Ground School training? How many of ELAL VA pilots are active pilots? How many events do your airline have? What kind of training and support your airline provides to new pilots? Who exactly deleted the post put on ELAL VA forum? If ELAL VA is so good as you say then why almost every one pm's and calls me with support for posting the messege? Why exactly people fear to openly discuss ELAL VA? I posted here the most rude post i ever wrote. But what was going on with the matter for last few days was shoking and surpising. I'm not requiring you Sir to answer me. Answer to yourself and to Israeli Virtual Aviation Community. You have to answer. Becouse ELAL is National Carrier and you representing its virtual counterpart. I'm ready for everything after this post. And don't care. Too tired and disappointed after these few days of endless unbolivable illogical things happening with these posts. Thank You and excuse me for such unbolivably rude post. There was no other way to express what i feel and think. Yes i want too that every pilot in the world would think about Israeli pilots as best of the best. That's maybe why i'm writing about it at all.

Hello gentleman! I have to apologize for a very rude and long post, please excuse me, but i have a questions that must be answered and discussed openly. I fully understand how furious will be ELAL VA pilots and executives. All i ask is to be merciful and reasonable. To discuss it, not to jump and attack, i think its important to every Israeli flyer on VATSIM. To the point: Recently due to invention of test system for our new pilots i was interested in ELAL VA admittance test. How it is built and what level of knowledge ELAL VA asks from its airman. To compare two systems, BAW's and ELAL's. I have to say i was very disappointed by ELAL VA test. I am not fear the word, but test was disgusting. Not because it was lacking the level of knowledge required from pilot. The level test required is actually very high. Even extremely high for virtual pilots. I had a feeling that ELAL VA executives took the real CAA (Civil Aviation Administration) theory test, slightly modified it and put online. Questions in the test... there is absolutely no way virtual pilot would know all the answers, many questions i had there not even implemented in Flight Simulator systems and useless to virtual pilot, he'll never meet them in FS. Some questions is impossible to answer without real life Ground School participation. Or without prior looking to answers in training test. There is two options how successful candidate can pass the test. First and as far as i see usually used way is to look at answers at training test and fill in correct answers. Second is to hold a Private Pilot license in real world which is i really don't think many ELAL VA pilots have. Which brings us to next point. My overall feeling from the test and website was something like "Look how good and professional we are. What an outstanding level you need to be our VA pilot". Feeling was that ELAL VA not trying to recruit new pilots and then train them to any level a pilot want to go, but trying to show any man who want to join that he is not good enough for ELAL VA. It make me laugh, all that cool knowledge the virtual pilot have, if at all...will not help him in any way in FS. It is also useless to him in real world. He lacks tons of supplement information and does not hold Pilot's license. Moreover, if such a pilot will ever go to Pilot's Course the information he learned will only hold him down. Because it is incomplete, learned without actual flying experience (real world) and inaccurate in some points, if not old. I have to say even more. It is painful for me because I’m Israeli too, and would love to see ELAL as best airline in the world but ELAL pilots at VATSIM many times receive "Any runway, Sir" (Personally hear'd it at Schiphol not once and not twice. How many times i hear'd it at Heathrow, don't ask. You don't want to know). I am not trying to say that all ELAL VA pilots are not so good flyers as we all would love them to be. I personally saw some ELAL VA flights that made me proud of the name they bear as callsigns. About the website: It is very beautiful. The man who built it is a very talented webmaster and true artist. I liked the website even more then real airline site. I have to admit, that before joining British Airways Virtual i come to a site of ELAL VA and searched for the information i am, as new pilot interested in. Like, how the ELAL VA built, what its ranks system, what career options is available, what destinations and aircraft i will be able to fly, what training they can offer me, what and how many events ELAL VA does, how many pilots fly online, if ACARS system present. I found some information on-site. But the most crucial for decision to join was nowhere. Only after long time one ELAL VA pilot told me that the information i was seeking then was on their forum. The last place new pilot would look for such information. But at time i wanted to join i had no idea where to look for it. Not even a clue on-site. I'm not even bothered then to go for a test, lack of information i was seeking for was enough for me to go away. On the website of British Airways Virtual i found extensive information about every aspect of Virtual Airline. Everything i was looking for was there. I joined. Today you know me as BAW339. It will stay that way forever i think. While ELAL VA had a chance to acquire a new pilot. You can't say a bad pilot. Now, after a veeeery long post, longest i ever wrote I’d like to ask ELAL VA executives few questions: What is the target ELAL VA trying to reach by putting close to real life test requiring knowledge that is nearly useless in FS world and impossible to pass honestly without prior real world training or extensive research and not providing important information that many prospect pilots would look for? Please, don’t tell me you looking only for the best. Look above about level of some pilots. Not all of them truly the best of the best. British Airways VA have a very, very good pilots, best of the virtual world and it have a very bad pilots too. It provides extensive training to these pilots, they become better and some of them become best of the virtual world. Nobody born with the knowledge of how to fly. Everyone learn. Please don't think that i wrote this post to show how cool BAV is and how bad ELAL VA is. That is not the meaning or intention of the post. Intention of it is to finally discuss openly some matters that people talk in private. British Airways VA started as 4 man group in 2002 (about the exact date i might be mistaken). Today it have 1250 members. Close to 800 of them registered as active pilots, meaning they fly few days a week. It is the largest airline in VATSIM, officially recognized by real world British Airways. It is the policy of BAV not to overcome 1250 pilots. Otherwise it would have much more. Reputation of BAV is as most professional virtual airline in the world. Why would ELAL VA with its great potential not become large and truly best airline? I have the courage to post this, definitely will receive a lot of angry and furious answers. If not banned at all from VATIL. Hope to get at least one reasonable answer from ELAL VA executives. Once again please excuse me for rude post, i am not intended to hurt anyone. Just a few things i noticed and sharing with you. Hope this will open a discussion on the matter This post was deleted 3 days ago without any reason. Reasons given to me was at best funny. It was promised after a scandal that the post will be back. I'm tired to wait so i posted it again. Also i've been informed that ELAL VA staff was interested in this messege, due to what posted here is new to them. Nobody before haven't told it to them. They did accepted that ELAL VA test is actually Private Pilot License test. I can't comment that. Becouse it would be very rude. If you have anything to say about ELAL VA then do so now. Either if its good or bad. Even the best managers have to recieve feedback to understand if what they do is right.

זו היה אירוע מהדים! אין באמת מלים להסביר איך נהנתי. תודה רבה רבה לכל הפקחים, לכולם שארגנו והשתתפו באירוע, תודה מיוחדת לבן אדם שאישר להביר אירוע בביתו, בלדב כל זה לא היה הפשרי. המון תורות לקובי ואיציק שאישרו לי והזמינו אותי לבוע לווקר חד"ב! אם כל הרצון שלי לטוס, אחריי שאיגתי הביתה רציתי לטוס בחזרה לחד"ב למרות שלא ישנתי קבר 28 שאות. זה היה כ"כ מהדים! אין שום מילה שיחולה להסביר את זה. ממש חד"ב אמיתית! תודה גדולה לאיציק שהיה לו סבלנות להסביר לי על מערכת ASRC ולרעות לי איזה כיף זה לייות פקח. היום שלחתי בקשה שלי לVATIL להדרכה ובחינה. עור בטח יחכה בסבלנות עד בחינה שלי בAPP כדי להחזיר לי אל קונקורד יש לו זמן להיתמן במטוס בנתיים תודה לעור וכל הפקחים על יחס אישי וחם וסבלנות בהסבר על כל מערכת ואמדה. וכמובן תודה על הפיקוח נהדר! כל מי שהיה בביקור בחד"ב מבין, מי שלא היה חבל. אין שום מילה כדי להסביר. There is no words i know to express my gratitude and happiness to everyone who took part in the event for their investment and professionalism. Please excuse me for mistakes in Hebrew, i wish i knew it better then i do. Thank you

Just came back from Control Room Its something incredible! Faantastic! You have to visit it to understand! כל הכבוד! Thanks to every one who is there, its really outstanding.

Congratulations Izik! Best, most professional, kind and diplomatic instructor on VATIL and a very good man. Congratulations!

Hello ladies and gentleman! I'd like to express my respect and recognition to Or Netzer VATIL10 for his very impressive achievement in FS. Allow me to fill in the details: A few weeks ago when Or was on LLBG_APP and i was taking LVLD 767 for a first flight one hour after i bought it i was unable to start up the engines of the aircraft. (Cmo'n i'm too lazy to read the manual). So APP pronounced some words about it, i told him to try to start and fly Concorde... After that Or kindly provided me with checklist of 767... Yep, i was too stupid. All i did wrong is pack switches. After that event i already forgot almost every VATIL member who got my messenger asked me what was there and released few jokes about Or's ability to start-up Concorde. Well, after a day or two Or and i was talking about well known event of BAV and Or asked me to help him study the Concorde aircraft. I was surprised. Surprised more when i figured out that he have no idea how to start and fly 747-200. I adviced to him to study the easier aircraft... but he insisted. To the training of Or i approached with a good old pound of salt. I did not belived that he will do it to the end. Too long, too hard, too much completly unknown systems and different way of piloting the bird. Not so comforting FMC, but crazy INS. Not slow and low approach but fast and high fallout to the runway. First of all i was very impressed by Or's ability to learn. There was almost no system or gauge that i had to explain twice. He learned and remembered everything very quickly. Today we made a flight with two Concordes from London Heathrow to Tel-Aviv Ben-Gurion Int'l. Or piloted his bird quite good. Except few moments when two birds come too close and he became a little nervous. But the most of my impression was the landing. Right before it Or had problems with Gravity Configuration and after dumping the fuel his engines went down. Allow me not to enter discussion about why etc... Concorde systems. Even at this situation, when LLBG_APP and LLBG_GND watching him closely he remained calm and with little instruction restarted the engines in air and continued the landing run. He actually landed the aircraft very good and smooth. It was a very beautiful landing that i enjoyed to watch. Or really invested the time, learning hardest to fly jet on today's FS. Not an easy task. He did it with lot of patience and interest. And most importantly he had the courage and bravery to perform his first flight from take-off to landing online, passing international borders on mach 2.2 and victoriously landing his supersonic lady on runway 12 at Ben-Gurion International. Captain Or Netzer, it was a honor and pleasure to fly with you on M2.2 and to watch your successful landing on runway 12. Your training is now complete Captain Or Netzer.

Good evening gentleman We got here a discussion on a very sensitive matter. I'm sorry if my words will hurt someone or will be misunderstood. In some points i agree with Izik in some i disagree. Yes, it is a personal decision of every Israeli either to take his bird to the air or to control the air traffic. However i think that before each and every one of us decides what you will do i'd ask you to consider why this day at all was invented as Memorial Day. That is Day of Shoa and as far as i see most important the Day of Halaley Zahal. This day was implemented to give respect and honor to these who fall in combat against enemy forces while protecting the State of Israel and our well being in it. That day was not invented as day for fun or pleasure. It was invented to remember ultimate sacrifice of others for us. My personal opinion is: IAF F15's flew over Poland to make the point of remembering these who fall during Shoa. But i cannot imagine IAF doing air show in Israel during that day. We all enjoy the VATSIM, flying and controlling... To fly and control during that day... that is not how we show respect to these who fall for us to live. I will not use harder words while very like to use them. More then this... in the eyes of the world it would not seem right. It is unethical to do such a thing during such a day. Personally i will not fly that day. Becouse it is jeopardy and immoral to enjoy during that day. It is disrespect to all these people who gave us life we live now, while they sacrificed theirs. For us. As for event during that day. Americans do event each 9/11 at KJFK. Their point in it is to proove "We are alive, we are victorious, you cannot beat us". I don't know if it is acceptable or possible to do something like that in Israeli Airspace during our day, but personally don't think so. That is my personal point of view. As i say'd earlier it is a decision every Israeli have to make for himself.

Thank You very much! I'll be there.

כל אכבוד לאור. ממש כל הטיסה חשבתי איך לבצעה את מצב חירום כ"כ שלא יחקה ולא ידעה על תקלות מראש מעל יוון היה לי תקלה של מהירות גאו"ג ואז אחלתתי לתת תקלות שלב שלב. למרות שעם איתי יודעה שהיה קזה חוסר מיקצויות מצד של מספר טייסים... אוליי היתי שוקל הפשרות לנחות באטונה ולא לאוסיף לחצ אטומי לאור שגם בלי קונקורד היה לא ממש קשה. עם הגעת קונקורד עם כל התקלות שאוספתי.. בעמת כל הכבוד אור! ולטייסים שהיתפרקו בגל תוכ כדי מצב חירום... הם חייבים להגיד תודה רבה להנלה של וטיל שלא אתחילו לנתק אותם מרשת. באמריקה לא היו חושבים פעמיים. רציתי גם לאגיד תודה רבה לעלד-וטיל 9. כל הירוא היה מעוד נחמד וללא ספק קשה מאוד לנבחן גם תודה רבה לכל הטייסים המקצואנים שהשתתפו במבחן וטסו בשמי הארץ. זה היה מאוד נחמד לראות כ"כ הרבה מטוסים בשמיים ובקרקה ובטח תודה רבה לאור! שידור אחרון שלו מייד אחריי עצירה בטקסיואי זרק אותי לדשבוארד של קוקפית תותח! קצר ולאיניין: תודה לכולם מי שהישתתף! אני מעוד נהנתי, ומי שלא יודעה גם אחריי 30 דקות טסטי בחזרה ללונדון תחת פיקוח של אור תודה זו לא כולל טיסים שלו יודעים נועליי התנעגות במצביי חירום או נואלי טיסה באויר מפוקח (Controlled Airspace) לכל אחד ואחד אחר... זה היה הירוע מדהים! תודה! ועוד תוספת אחרונה... לדעתי היה ממש חסר איציק שם. עם הוא היה שם...אז בכלל היה אפשר להגיד שהירואה מושלם